By Brad Dupray
In his 11 years as senior pastor at The Crossing, a five-campus church with a home base in Quincy, Illinois, Jerry Harris has seen the church grow from 230 to more than 4,000. That growth did not come without challenges, but The Crossing is “clicking on all cylinders” and a year ago was listed as the fastest-growing megachurch in the United States among those in Christian Standard”s megachurch issue.
A large part of The Crossing”s success can be attributed to the relationship Jerry has established with his elders. Jerry, along with Rodney Roberts, an elder at The Crossing for six years and currently chairman, sat down to speak with Christian Standard.
How would you describe the relationship between the preacher and elders at The Crossing?
Rodney Roberts: I think it”s close. We try to be a sounding board for the pastors; and at the same time, we don”t try to micromanage them. We take a team approach. We try to guard more than anything, allowing the pastors to be as creative as they can be. We happen to have a staff of very creative pastors.
Jerry Harris: There is mutual respect. I don”t look at the elders as an obstacle. They don”t look at the staff as an obstacle. I make sure to keep them on the front end of my ideas and thoughts about the church.
RR: We try to see where God”s working and go as a team.
How do you come to a meeting of the minds on vision?
JH: I can”t think of a single vision for this church that looked the same when it came to pass as it did when it was first discussed. When I throw something out from 10,000 feet, it may look really good, but I”ll be open to how it comes together. It”s kind of like a laboratory; no one individual gets credit for what is created.
RR: If God uses the first idea to move us to something completely different, something we didn”t even know existed until we started in the first direction, that”s fine. We see that as God directing us. We had to take the first steps to get our eyes open to a bigger picture.
JH: There”s a culture here now that expects to say, “Look at what God did.”
Do you initiate the vision, Jerry?
JH: Yes, they expect that of me. They look to me to say, “Where do you see God going?” I throw out something, and they build on that. We”re often filled with wonder as we see that God is the one who makes the church grow.
With a diversity of leaders, do you sometimes have difficulties determining just what direction God has for you?
RR: You”re dealing with 13 guys with different backgrounds, professions, and gifts, and an idea may end up hitting each of us differently. We share our hearts and try to seek God, and we usually come out unified. It may not be exactly the way Jerry presented it to us, but that”s part of the process. It”s kind of neat to see he”s not getting credit and we”re not getting credit””God gets the credit. When we”re faithful, then he lets us see the reward for being faithful. Trusting in him to allow us to do some things to react quickly to change””that”s refreshing.
Is there tension between Jerry and the elders during that process?
RR: I think the first thing we want to do is to get the facts lined out. If there”s an issue, we find out Jerry”s heart on it. He”s connected to it and has input. We get that on the table, and naturally you”ll have some differences of opinion. But when we have an hour or two to sift through it, we try to make sure what God wants us to do and not react in the flesh.
JH: It”s absolutely critical as a pastor to guard elders so if someone comes up to them in the church about an issue, they aren”t taken by surprise. It works in the reciprocal too, that the elders guard the pastor so he”s not surprised.
JH: If the elders and pastors are unified, the church is unified. If you”re not holding on to stuff and you”re sharing it, it may look like you”re whining, but it”s better to whine than to cover it up. You have to give each other permission to say what you”re thinking.
RR: I can”t think of a time when it was not unanimous on how to handle situations that came up. That”s important to us as an eldership, to be unified in all of our decisions and be willing to seek out unity and to seek God”s leading so we”re all on the same page.
How do the elders stay on track with the vision?
JH: Like many churches, we have strategic planning, where we get away and make sure that regular business stays off the table and we have an opportunity to dream. Inside of elders” meetings we devote about 25 percent of our time to prayer. That gets us aligned, gets our eyes on the ball.
RR: My old church was a traditional church that was slow to react. A lot of business meetings and discussions””it was tough to move forward. The Crossing is much different. Because of the cohesiveness of the board we can move quickly and efficiently to follow God”s vision.
JH: Inside of elders” meetings there”s a lot of permission for honesty and transparency. It”s kind of like, “What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.” We feel like we have permission in elders” meetings to really say what we think. If this idea stinks, those in the meeting aren”t going to have a problem saying, “This idea stinks!”
Jerry, how do you move from an elder-accepted vision to leading the congregation in that vision?
JH: I preach from vision and I have to be excited about that vision. There hasn”t been a visionary church that hasn”t lost people. We”ve done some very visionary things here that alienate some people, but we don”t let that stop us. We”re not here to please people, and I think we successfully communicate that. We”re trying to be effective on God”s terms, not on our own. It has been said, “Leadership is making people uncomfortable at a rate they can tolerate.” I have no idea where that came from, but I held on to it.
And when people can”t tolerate it?
RR: When those responses come, many times we look at each other like, “Here we go again!” One of the things we have become accustomed to is, don”t be satisfied with the status quo. We”re looking to where God is taking us at The Crossing””what can we do to reach the lost, to introduce people to Christ””as long as we have that mind-set, we usually don”t have a problem.
How have you created a culture that accepts change?
JH: Just out of desperation <laughs>. I think it started when I came here and the church was in turmoil. They had lost a pastor with a moral failure and didn”t know where to go next. They were hungry for a unifying vision. I hit the ground running, and that vision was established within six weeks of my coming.
What made the difference?
JH: We bought the campus of John Wood Community College. That got the congregation to quit looking at the rearview mirror and start looking forward. We established a real tight-knit unity in the eldership then. We recognized that unity goes from the top down. We stayed unified, and the congregation trusted us. Then we started building success upon success. That gave us courage to continue with changes, and it gave the congregation confidence in leaders to implement those changes.
Kind of like a snowball rolling in the right direction?
RR: We”ve discussed this often. When you get some mileage behind you and see how God honors steps of faith, you receive strength to take more of them. You see that God never fails to show up. You need that reinforcement in order to make tough decisions.
How do you find the right pace of change?
JH: That probably is the most critical component the elders bring to leadership. If the pastor respects the elders and they”re aligned with a vision of how they want to change the world, then elders will let the pastor know what the congregation can stand. I wouldn”t have come to this church if I wasn”t convinced these guys were every bit as hungry for growth as I was.
RR: It”s recognizing God”s will. I don”t want to make it too simple, but we have elders who are gifted in different areas. We have financial people, some with leadership skills, and others who are benevolent. When you mix these gifts together and apply them toward a common vision, you leave the rest to God”s leading. That helps you move at a pace that everyone can accept.
How have you managed to keep your leadership connected to the congregation when things are growing so fast in multiple locations?
JH: Eldership is a critical component. One of the metrics for our multisites is establishment of an eldership. I”ve looked for models of a strong eldership at multisites, and I haven”t really found one. Most multisites are staff led, and if they have elders, they are confined to a very limited role; they”re not making decisions about finances, hiring, etc. That”s not acceptable to us.
Do the elders at each site have full leadership authority?
JH: Yes. I don”t think there”s any other way you can be one church in multiple locations.
Bottom line: What makes things work at The Crossing?
RR: I think it”s paramount to look for where God is. See where he”s moving. We”re learning that God is not complacent; he doesn”t get comfortable. Once you”ve reached so many people you can”t say, “That”s enough.” He shows us there are so many ways to reach people. He has shown us a good platform for that with the multisite approach.
JH: Even though we have seen success, we”re always asking, “What are we not doing right here?”
RR: You couple that attitude with the synergy between the eldership and a creative pastoral team and you can move in a direction God wants you to go. We don”t try to put our stamp of approval on everything. We don”t have power struggles. We don”t have the need to claim credit. It”s all about God”s will for the church. I think that”s the one ingredient that makes this thing work.
JH: Our elders have learned the law of a bigger yes. Â I don”t need to have my music; I don”t need to dictate how people dress; I don”t need complete control of the environment. They”re sold out to seeing how God can work in people”s lives. Once you get a good helping of that, you want to go back to the buffet for some more.
Brad Dupray is senior vice president, ministry development, with Church Development Fund, Irvine, California.
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